May 2005, Interview with David Marks and Michael Stone

Stress at work: not a long term solution ...

Ethics in business, as in personal life, is concerned with being better off. Even from very ancient times, Aristotle argued that well-being, or being happy and doing well was the reason for being ethical. Any ethical position that takes outcomes or consequences at all into account says something similar. While going to work makes it possible to live well, as well as helps us develop our capacities, rising levels of stress may indicate that we are losing the ethical plot and actually making ourselves worse off. Good business talks to David Marks and Michael Stone, partners of Holistic Services Group.

GB: Michael and David thank you for talking with us. You are interested in work related stress, would you say that there are rising levels of stress in the workplace in Australia?

MS: Yes, definitely. It is hard to find statistics in terms of actual levels of stress in the workplace for two reasons. One reason is that a lot of people fail to be able to actually recognise exactly what stress is, and the other is that people often feel like they cannot communicate the fact that they are stressed in the workplace because it has in some instances a certain stigma attached to it.

GB: Like they are losing their grip? I imagine that just adds to the level of stress.

MS: Oh exactly, it is a bit of a vicious circle.

Isolation: cause and symptom of stress

GB: So would you say that isolation is both a cause and a symptom of stress in the workplace?

MS: Absolutely, if people are doing more and more through computers, the internet, and there is a lot less personal interaction, and a lot less face-to-face interaction, it actually leads to people feeling less like a person and more like a number in the system. People are human beings: they like to feel valued, and if they feel valued then they’re going to feel a lot happier in the workplace which is going to benefit them as well as their employers. So it’s about valuing the employee.

GB: You’ve mentioned isolation, what are some of the other common symptoms of stress?

DM: There are quite a few obvious ways that stress can manifest itself. It’s important to be aware that people manifest symptoms in different ways. We can’t stand up front and just say in a blanket way, “if you’re stressed, you’ll be behaving like this.” That’s because as individuals, we all act differently. That’s part of our stress management approach: different people manifest different symptoms that they need to learn to recognise. Having said that, on a physical level, common symptoms include:
* chronic tiredness, where sleep just doesn’t seem to be a refreshing process for people;
* aches and pains in joints, muscles, stomachs and so on;
* weight loss or weight gain;
* decreased interest in sex;
* reduced immunity, so people are more susceptible to colds and flu and allergies.

On a behavioural level, we see such things as we already touched on:
* withdrawal and isolating oneself from friends and colleagues;
* rejecting help and lack of effectiveness;
* becoming overly suspicious of others, even paranoia.

The physiological mechanism of stress, that’s built into us biologically, is designed to trigger the flight or fight response. Obviously it has been part of us for millions of years, it’s a survival mechanism. The biological flight or fight reflex is designed so that when we come under pressure, we will have a burst of adrenaline to cope. It works well over short periods of time. In the sort of situations we face at work these days, where we’re constantly being put under pressure to keep up with the work and the technology around us, actually what we’re doing is, we’re taking a system that’s built to be used in short bursts, we’re continually applying pressure to it. Therefore our body, constantly trying to cope, begins to overcompensate, and then the stress toxins in our body can actually build up and have detrimental effects on our bodies, because we’re not actually turning it on, turning it off, turning it on, turning it off.
So when it’s on constantly, the flight or fight response becomes quite an anxious state, like you’ve got to move on the spot. That’s where that paranoia can come from, because you feel constantly on the edge: the survival mechanism is searching your environment for the next attack of the sabre-tooth tiger, which hopefully isn’t too likely in the workplace.

GB: He might be dressed in an expensive three-piece suit!

DM: Right. On the mental-emotional side, we would identify depression as a consequence of this sort of complex. In that survival mode, thinking becomes very rigid, and there is a loss of problem-solving abilities.

GB: An inability to think outside of the box?
Constant survival mode means rising long-term costs
DM: Yes. In a relaxed, calm state, people are more open to being creative. When they’re in that flight or fight it does really become a bottomless or binary response. We become far more reactive rather than open: crying or getting angry easily and inappropriately; forgetfulness, resentfulness. On a spiritual level, if you want to call it that, or a well-being level, people can become very cynical about what they have previously valued, and become devoid of joy and unable to laugh. There’s a lack of direction in all this.

GB: Becoming cynical, losing a sense of value; I am tempted to describe that as losing one’s ethical compass, a sense of being lost that may have contributed to having made the error of straying into becoming permanently stressed in the first place.

MS: Yes, it certainly is a vicious cycle. On a related note, our work lives and our personal life are quite intertwined when it comes to stress. You have a stressful day at work and then you get home, and it’s very hard to just forget about it all and, likewise, if your marriage is under severe stress for example, it’s hard to go to work and just forget about all of that and have a great day at work. It’s very much connected.

GB: So if you’ve filled yourself with toxins during work you come home and they leak out all over the place.

MS: Yes, that’s a very good analogy.

GB: So this is a very serious problem for those who suffer it. Do we have any idea of how prevalent it is in Australia?

DM: There aren’t many statistics as such. As Michael touched on before, it’s a very hard thing to quantify. There are, I believe, some statistics in terms of depression, but again, that would be more depression on its own right as opposed to stress related disorders.

MS: We have a statistic from December 2003 National Occupational Health and Safety Commission Report, an Australia report which says that cases of mental stress had by far the highest median of 8½ weeks with an average of 16 weeks of time lost, and accounted for 29% of all new cases of disease when compared with a median of 3.4 weeks and average of 9.3 weeks lost for all new cases of injury or disease. This comes to approximately double the amount of time lost in terms of stress claims of physical workplace injuries.

GB: Yes, it must be of considerable concern to business at least if not to the rest of the community.
Connected teamwork: a way forward
DM: Exactly, and that’s very much where Holistic Services Group aims at the work-life balance approach. As Michael said, work life and private life are so intertwined. With our stress management courses, we aim to give people tools that are going to be useful for them to use in their day to day work life, and that they can use in their private time as well.

GB: Are we just talking here about management of symptoms or can we go beyond that?

DM: We need to think about the whole work environment: both the business and the employee. It’s both. What we aim to do with our course is also to give the employees a sense of their responsibility for their own health and wellbeing.

GB: Not to be passive victims in it all? If isolation is a symptom-cause and a significant common factor in people’s stress, one of the things we at “Good Business” would say is that connectedness, your relationships with other people, is a key element of your ethical behaviour and is also a key contributor to your well-being as a human being. Would you agree with that sort of a general position?

MS: Absolutely. And in fact, when we talk to an organisation to understand what their key issues are, one of the critical factors is the structure of the hierarchy, and the relationships that flow from it. Some of our practitioners conduct seminars and workshops that are based on actually looking at the dynamics of the interaction between management and staff. We look at the patterns of relationships: is there’s a feeling of competition between teams? Is there a feeling of trust? By looking at all the various aspects of communication it becomes clear that if someone feels that there is trust and integrity and the relationship is there for them to communicate how they really feel, they do feel a lot more valued and a lot more respected. This has consequences for their productivity which benefits the employer as well. That’s basically what our model “Healthy People, Wealthy Workplaces” works on. People with a balanced lifestyle are happier in their workplace and that benefits both them and their employer.

GB: What sort of tips can you give to managers about their communication style? They are people who are under pressure as well, and the way life’s organised at the moment, if they have to make some changes, it’s another pressure for them

DM: Well for example, one of our clients is a major IT company, and their sales team approached us and the leader of the team is very proactive about the way she approaches stress. She saw her team not just as a group of people who have come together to do the job for the company, but she views them as people. She sees the dynamic of the teamwork and understands that everyone really belongs to that team. I guess this is one of the key things: to understand that everyone in that team is an individual. Each person has different perspectives, based on their own history and experience. Part of getting right is realising that there is value in what other people bring into the equation. One of the most important skills is to be able to listen, and to be able to self-monitor, and by that I mean the ability to be aware of your own inner motivations, and the way you individually filter information that comes to you.
(Ethically) Health Staff: (Sound) Wealthy Workplace
DM: We all know that business is about making money, we need to make money in order to survive in this society. However, I think it’s a matter of focus. The businesses which focus on the money first and then run the risk of letting the people side of things fall to the wayside, in their mad charge for another dollar fall into ethical problems. Whereas to keep in mind that any business is primarily a relationship first, if you are building good solid relationships based on ethics and services and people, then the finances will come.

GB: Some argue that good pro-active ethical management will mean there will be good management in every aspect of the firm, because they care about and are attentive to every aspect of the firm.

DM: A large group of people who all have their intention and focus in the same direction is going to be far more pro-active and effective than a company that’s run by someone who just simply wants to sit at the top and give orders.

MS: Staff who sense respect and integrity will have a vision that is aligned with the company as well. When I feel anxious about what I am doing, it will be manifested in physical ways, because the values of who I work for were not in alignment with my own personal values.

GB: You mentioned the costs of time lost at work, are there other costs?

DM: Higher staff turnover, which obviously has the effect of having a higher cost of the business because they’ve then got to train someone up. The cost will range from a few thousand dollars at a lower end of the employment spectrum to hundreds of thousands if you’re talking about lawyers or high end executives. Low morale and high absenteeism rates would be other examples.

GB: In Australia, there is a growing rate of casualisation of labour in the workplace. I wonder whether there aren’t a significant number of companies out there who think that they are better off with staff churn.

MS: There are certainly a number of companies that unfortunately think that that’s the way to go, but I think ultimately in the long term, they’re going to realise the hard way that they’re actually shooting themselves in the foot. Hewitt Associates published a report entitled “Best Employers in Australia and New Zealand” and it says that the average revenue growth for the best employers between the Year 2002 and 2003 was actually 114% higher than that of other organisations, and that their average profit growth was 45% higher. The major reason was that those employers spent on average $4,289 on training per employee compared with $3,743 spent by the other organisations. The CEOs of the best employer companies identified the passion and commitment of their people with the key ingredients in the execution of their business strategy. I think that answers that question.

GB: Yes. I understand your argument. What do you say, however, when being ethical, or doing the right thing by your employees, will mean less profit? Is there a response? Does that situation ever occur?

MS: Perhaps in the short term it does. Let’s use the analogy of a solar panel for hot water heating as an example. A high initial cost to make the investment, but then over the years, your rate of return is actually a lot higher having made that initial investment, you actually save on expenses in the long term. So I think in the short term perhaps it might be costly, but in the longer term it’s definitely the way to go in terms of creating a sustainable company.

GB: Managers, good managers care for their people. They have relationships which are really human in lots and lots of ways. Nevertheless, I suspect that many managers avoid caring too much because they’re wondering what happens come the day when they have to fire staff because of an economic downturn. If they are genuinely trying to generate a greater level of trust in their team, as you are arguing for, then come layoff day, is this not just a betrayal of trust?

MS: To begin with, you can’t run a business based on what may happen, or may not happen in the future. You have to be able to create an atmosphere of trust and openness with the understanding that you never know what tomorrow brings. I don’t think you can use that as an excuse to say “No, I’m not going to develop open relationships simply because possibly I might have to hurt them in the future”.

GB: But surely trust implies that communicating a message like this, “OK, we don’t know what tomorrow’s going to bring, but if we trust one another, you can trust that I will do all in my power to act for your good, in your interests, trust that I will stand by you.” Is that not true at least to some extent?

DM: I’m sure we’ve all heard stories of situations where companies were faced with large losses of employees, and then the employees turned around and said to the company, “Look, we’re prepared to get paid half the rate if we all get to keep our job.” I think that the success of proposals like that is just as much a part of the manager being a good listener as well being a product of that good relationship, to be able to sit down with your team, and say, “Look guys, cards on the table. This is what we’re facing. Has anyone got any good ideas here?”

GB: In fact Hewlett Packard has adopted such a strategy in years past I know. In fact it was a policy, although I don’t know whether that is still the case. There was a very strong downturn and there was broad agreement, staff and management to take pay cuts until things got better.

DM: Yes, there have been a number of those sorts of successes that we hear about over the years, and I think that speaks volumes for the relationship that the management can have with the employees.

MS: And if the company can get to that point where the relationships are that open where they can all sit down together and figure out a solution, then they are going to get some really amazing creative ideas coming out there. The most dynamic companies around today do that. Everyone is just as important as the CEO.
I think one of the key things for us is that HSG offers employers options in supporting their staff to grow and develop, so that they can perform at their highest level. Another way of saying that is that we’re about making staff feel valued and improving their contribution in the workplace, that’s our motto: “Healthy people Wealthy workplaces.”

GB: Yes, it’s about understanding people as creativity that can grow, rather than as a problem that might explode.

DM: Exactly.

GB: Thank you both for your time.
(David Marks and Michael Stone are co-directors of Holistic Services Group:
E-mail: info@holisticservices.com.au;
http://www.holisticservices.com.au/;
Phone: 02 9967 8096
Post: PO Box 4027
Castlecrag NSW 2068
AUSTRALIA)

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